Interview with Co-President of The Club of Rome, Sandrine Dixson-Declève
The seminal report of The Club of Rome, The Limits to Growth, published in 1972, focused on the physical constraints of the planet, and the report No Limits to Learning, released in 1979, identified the root problem as the widening gap between the growing complexity of our world and our capacity to cope with it.
Motivated by the 45th anniversary of No Limits to Learning and the 40th anniversary of Before It Is Too Late, the dialogue between SGI President Daisaku Ikeda and Club of Rome co-founder Aurelio Peccei, The Club of Rome’s Fifth Element initiative has launched a project in partnership with the Soka Gakkai, titled, “It’s time for a Human Revolution! Sparking action through inner transformation and mutual learning.”
The following is from an interview about the project with The Club of Rome Co-President Sandrine Dixson-Declève for an article carried in the August 24, 2024, issue of the Seikyo Shimbun.
1. Please outline the background that led to the launch of this project.
The year 2024 marks the 40th anniversary of the publication of Before It Is Too Late and the 45th anniversary of No Limits to Learning. These two books are alive within the ethos of The Club of Rome. When the world was learning about the material limits to economic growth, these publications offered an opportunity to dig deeper into the key risks of continuing down an extractive economic pathway and tangible solutions to overcome the problem, by sparking collective action through inner transformation and mutual learning.
2. Why do you think the concept of human revolution is important in today’s world?
We are faced with the greatest existential challenges the world has ever faced. The Club of Rome was an early voice, warning of the kind of global crises that are so evident today. These warnings were issued from a holistic commitment to the human future. Over the years, I have had the privilege of meeting with The Club of Rome’s leaders, conducting in-depth discussions on global challenges and publicizing the results in the form of printed dialogues, publications and calls to action. Through these discussions, we have come to a shared understanding: That the crises facing humankind will only be solved through faith in the immense potentialities of individuals and a renewed focus on the positive transformation of society, a deep human revolution.
As we go back through the history of President Ikeda’s words of wisdom and those of Aurelio Peccei and so many of my esteemed colleagues from The Club of Rome over the course of the last 50 years, I can’t help but wonder when that human revolution will actually blossom exponentially so that it can meet the scale of the complex challenges we are facing. To empower people to transform their own destinies and create a future where dignity, prosperity and respect are firmly anchored in our way of being on this planet and within this universe.
This entails both inner and outer development and an understanding that the transformation of our destiny is directly linked to the way we “re-wire humanity” and respect our broader ecosystems in our societies and everything we do. That this transformation goes into the fundamentals of the structures and systems humankind has entrapped itself in. Systems like our economic, financial and governance systems that are disconnected from the real needs of people, planet and prosperity and currently foster power, profit and greed, rather than healthy people on a healthy planet.
A human revolution in the 21st century entails an understanding that there is no inner development for broader societal change, or possibility of a human revolution, without deep systemic transformation. This would enable individuals and a human collective to create a society that shifts from the “me” to the “we” and from the “ego” to the “eco.” Ensuring this transition to the “we” and the “eco” entails a better understanding of the human problématique and possible alternative futures. This leads us to the work we are doing today at The Club of Rome across our Impact Hubs and is the focus of our most recent publications Earth4All: A Survival Guide for Humanity and Limits and Beyond.
3. Please share your impressions of the Before It Is Too Late and the significance of No Limits to Learning.
Both Aurelio Peccei and Daisaku Ikeda were humanists who understood complexity and the need for a human revolution and evolution towards a greater sense of humanity and humility. They both saw a desperate need to shift from the “ego” to the “eco” and from the “me” to the “we” through individual transformation and broader societal change, at a time Aurelio Peccei referred to as a materialistic technological age.
Both books reflect on the need to learn from our mistakes as a human species and civilization and not only enhance greater exchange but take into consideration different perspectives so that humanity can confront complex challenges and address the human problématique through deep inner and outer transformation rather than depend on a material and technological revolution to create a thriving civilization. The sub text of No Limits to Learning is bridging the human gap. This is fundamental as it points to how we as a human species can only address global problems linked to our extractive economic system through the human element as it is our learning and an individual human spirit—not material resources—that will truly get us out of our existential challenges and foster greater well-being. In Before it is Too Late, Aurelio Peccei further affirms the call for a human revolution in his dialogue with Daisaku Ikeda in the following way:
“When I affirm the need, and call, for a human revolution, I do not refer to any religious faith; as you know, I have in mind a profound cultural evolution inspired by a new humanism capable of illuminating and inspiring our generations in this materialistically oriented technological age. My discussion with you has nevertheless shown that, though you are guided by your Buddhist faith and though we start from different viewpoints and use different forms of expression, we are both talking about the same kind of change of heart.” (Before It Is Too Late, I.B. Tauris, 2009, p. 118)
No Limits to Learning further reminds us that the only way to address 20th century crises is to shift from a materialistic technocratic and technological era that is the root of the human problématique into a conscious anticipation of future shocks and stresses by building the right societal structures that hard wire value-based decision making across our energy, food, financial, geo-political and economic systems.
It is regrettable that the messages in these incredibly profound publications were not heeded. Because these initial calls for a human revolution were not listened to and the dire scientific warnings from The Limits to Growth and so many other substantiated calls for action were not taken into consideration over the last five decades, we continue to struggle with the same fundamental questions and now face an age of interlocking crises.
We therefore desperately need a new leadership that embraces the qualities of a Buddhist Humanism as a philosophy of human development, peace and social engagement and a sense of a noble self and change of heart to take hold of and properly address the existential crises that we have created. This is today’s challenge. This is our collective responsibility and the best way to honor the work of these great visionaries and those who have followed in their footsteps, to translate their thought leadership into transformational change.
4. What outcome is this project aiming to achieve?
The Club of Rome, through its program The Fifth Element, has been mobilizing communities across the world who are already engaged in the human revolution. The seeds for global equity on a healthy planet already exist. This event aims to celebrate this while bringing together diverse participants including academics, professionals, youth activists, students, educators and representatives from nongovernmental and international organizations, to learn together about liberating the future, one sector at a time.
Sandrine Dixson-Declève is Co-President of the Club of Rome, an influential think tank focused on global sustainability and long-term strategies for addressing complex challenges such as climate change, biodiversity loss and economic inequality. With over 30 years of experience in policy, business and sustainability, she has worked with governments, corporations, and non-governmental organizations to drive systemic change. She is also a leading advocate for the green economy and has served as an advisor to institutions such as the European Union on energy, climate and sustainability initiatives.
